Re: American black people (Has to be said)
Posted: Tue Nov 22, 2005 12:15 am
tis2flyyy,
Hmmm this is always an interesting one. I can kinda understand where Fundamental is coming from, it's true that most Black people over here hardly ever refer to themselves as English. That's why I always smile when African-Americans try to rile me by referring to the Boston Tea Party or the war of Independance (like I really give a fuck that England lost).
The reason for this is that we are only a few generations deep here. The first black people arrived here en masse just after the second world war from the Caribbean to help rebuild England after Hitlers bombs almost destroyed the country. (I also want to mention that black people were here since the Roman times, but in terms of the beginning of MASS immigration, it happened during the 40's & 50's from the Caribbean). Then in the 60's & 70's you had black immigrants coming in from ex-British colonies in Africa. These people's journey was no different to that made Marcus Garvey (Jamaica), Sidney Poitier (Virgin Islands), Stokely Carmichael (Trinidad) or even Colin Powell's parents (Jamaica) who all came from the Caribbean (but are sometimes assumed to be all-and-all american)
These black people brought with them to England their own varieties of cultures, dialects and languages, so most of their children (like me) even though they were born in England will still feel a greater affinity for the "old country" much in the same way European immigrants to the US still refer to themselves as "Irish", "German", "Italian" whatever and still celebrate the holidays and some of their ancestors' traditions.
Another reason why why Black people held onto the culture of their parents was partly because racism was rife here in the 70's & 80's. White English people were quick to tell you that you didn't belong...and so nobody black wanted to even associate themselves with England and its history (which had effectively brutalised their forefathers). But times change, and there was the realisation that these dark children born of Caribbean and African people were here to stay.
So nowadays, there is an emerging Black identity in England that is unique only to over here, whereas several years before everybody black spoke with a foreign accent, there is now prevailing a distinct dialect and slang that is different. it's almost a mish-mesh of African, Caribbean and cockney slang!
But it is still always going to be difficult for me to identify with EVERYTHING English, (I grew up hearing reggae music in the house!). But I see it much in the same way that White Americans don't really identify with EVERYTHING American, they only identify their American history dating back to the landing of the pilgrim fathers (you NEVER hear them speak about the 1000's of years of Native American history that occurred before). So I in turn only really identify my English history back to when my parents came over.
I understand though why African-Americans are proud to be American, because they helped to build the country. Too many toiled, too many suffered and too many died in order for america to be the country that she is. Sometimes I think that we need to ask the question whether it isn't the Racism that we really hate as opposed to the individual countries in which we live in. The Land masses of England and America have been in existance for a long time and will probably be around for a long time to come, but hopefully the sickness of racism will one day die in both.
We can only strive...
Peace gee
Hmmm this is always an interesting one. I can kinda understand where Fundamental is coming from, it's true that most Black people over here hardly ever refer to themselves as English. That's why I always smile when African-Americans try to rile me by referring to the Boston Tea Party or the war of Independance (like I really give a fuck that England lost).
The reason for this is that we are only a few generations deep here. The first black people arrived here en masse just after the second world war from the Caribbean to help rebuild England after Hitlers bombs almost destroyed the country. (I also want to mention that black people were here since the Roman times, but in terms of the beginning of MASS immigration, it happened during the 40's & 50's from the Caribbean). Then in the 60's & 70's you had black immigrants coming in from ex-British colonies in Africa. These people's journey was no different to that made Marcus Garvey (Jamaica), Sidney Poitier (Virgin Islands), Stokely Carmichael (Trinidad) or even Colin Powell's parents (Jamaica) who all came from the Caribbean (but are sometimes assumed to be all-and-all american)
These black people brought with them to England their own varieties of cultures, dialects and languages, so most of their children (like me) even though they were born in England will still feel a greater affinity for the "old country" much in the same way European immigrants to the US still refer to themselves as "Irish", "German", "Italian" whatever and still celebrate the holidays and some of their ancestors' traditions.
Another reason why why Black people held onto the culture of their parents was partly because racism was rife here in the 70's & 80's. White English people were quick to tell you that you didn't belong...and so nobody black wanted to even associate themselves with England and its history (which had effectively brutalised their forefathers). But times change, and there was the realisation that these dark children born of Caribbean and African people were here to stay.
So nowadays, there is an emerging Black identity in England that is unique only to over here, whereas several years before everybody black spoke with a foreign accent, there is now prevailing a distinct dialect and slang that is different. it's almost a mish-mesh of African, Caribbean and cockney slang!
But it is still always going to be difficult for me to identify with EVERYTHING English, (I grew up hearing reggae music in the house!). But I see it much in the same way that White Americans don't really identify with EVERYTHING American, they only identify their American history dating back to the landing of the pilgrim fathers (you NEVER hear them speak about the 1000's of years of Native American history that occurred before). So I in turn only really identify my English history back to when my parents came over.
I understand though why African-Americans are proud to be American, because they helped to build the country. Too many toiled, too many suffered and too many died in order for america to be the country that she is. Sometimes I think that we need to ask the question whether it isn't the Racism that we really hate as opposed to the individual countries in which we live in. The Land masses of England and America have been in existance for a long time and will probably be around for a long time to come, but hopefully the sickness of racism will one day die in both.
We can only strive...
Peace gee
![]:o(](./images/smilies/flaming_mad.gif "Flaming Mad"){kind=small}
)
..crash seemed even a bit sugarconed..but it made me cry at some parts..it was the soundtrack too..![]:o)](./images/smilies/lildevil.gif "Devil"){kind=small}
